Series: PropTech Chatter.
Show Notes
Summary
Chris Moreno - Primary Venture Partners
Special mentions
Company: IBS, CES, HappyCo, RETCON, Stanley Martin Homes, OPTECH, Blueprint, AIM, Apartmentalize, DOGE, HUD, Advocate 2025.
People: Michael Beckerman, Steve Lefkovits, Dennis Cogbill.
Transcript
(Disclaimer: Please be advised that this transcript may contain unintentionally confusing, inaccurate, and/or amusing transcription errors.)
Matt Knight: Hey guys, Matt here, another episode of the podcast with Chris again. And like usual, we're talking about conferences this time, IBS. And then this was back before RETCON, even though right now it's after RETCON. And then we briefly touch on DOGE at the end, what's coming up and what we're hearing. So enjoy the time to Chris and enjoy your day.
All right, Chris, let's kick it off, man. Just settling back in from IBS. How was Vegas for you?
Chris Moreno: Oh, it's wild. IBS is, overwhelming to say the least. All types of, the traditional building materials to new technologies, hardware, software, but mainly physical products and goods from all over the world.
Matt Knight: That's why I like it, man. I guess coming from CES, it's sort of the flavor of Q1, this big hardware shows in Vegas. That's the only [00:01:00] two thing I've gone to this year.
Chris Moreno: Yeah, it was, you know, I've gone to a couple this year and obviously going to the annual meetings, that were in Vegas.
IBS in Vegas. I was at Happy Co. last week in San Diego. And then, obviously a local event. We'll be back at RETCON next week in Vegas, it seems like everything's in Vegas this year. I think the biggest thing that matters is because these shows are getting so large that most other cities oftentimes can't handle it.
The volume, I think IBS was over a hundred thousand people, if I'm not mistaken, and 4, 000 vendors this year. And when they used to do it in Orlando, they just outgrew Orlando, so put with the hotels, but, yeah, I mean, it was wild to see just the number, you know, I asked a lot about like tariffs and how that was affecting people think a lot of people, you know, are unknown.
So people were pretty focused on what they did know what they could help with. It was really interesting to see a lot around some core pillars, if you will. So I think like for me, key thing that I saw, was around [00:02:00] protecting assets. Whether it was like fire safety, water safety, crime, I saw pest control technologies that were like being built into the initial, properties as opposed to doing things after the fact.
So, a lot more focused on the developers to get safety and security into these properties and, and to sit, to protect the assets, at the earliest stages. I mean, how about you? What, what did you see? What was interesting for you?
Matt Knight: It's funny walking around with my brother who knows way more about this than I do.
What we both sort of noticed was how many of the same type of company were there, like how many window companies were there and how many like door companies did you see? I mean, 30 a piece. It was just a lot. I think like
Chris Moreno: 80.
Matt Knight: Yeah, I think it was ridiculous. Yeah. It was a bunch, right? Which again is. I'm sure they vary in quality and their specifications, but, you know, to bring that back to our world and prop tech, it's sort of like, when I see another [00:03:00] access control company, right?
Do we need another 1? How do you differentiate? How much money do those companies pay per show? And what's the ROI? It's sort of got my conference. Brain going like, how many, how many windows do you have to sell to go compete with the other 79 window vendors that IBS to make it worth your while? You know?
Chris Moreno: Yeah. I think the challenge is, is that there are so many companies from around the world, not let alone across the United States. And many of these companies, yeah, they might ship to you and whatnot, but so many of these physical products are, you know, you're going to be spending a lot more potentially for something that's coming across the country, coming from another country.
Also I think that, you know, it's funny when you start asking people about specific things, you know, I think what's interesting is so many of the firms there do one thing really, really well. That was the other thing that was really overwhelming, Matt, is that because. You don't have someone like unless you're like the Home Depot or [00:04:00] Lowe's or Builders Supply Warehouse.
You know, where they're able to have all these different products under their one warehouse, if you will, so many of the booths are individual products, like I saw Stanley there, which is a good example. I walked up to Stanler, there's Stanley, and we know, you know, one of the investors who's here locally on the VC side, but it's interesting because you walk up to the booth and they're just doing one product under Stanley.
Not the 30 products that they offer, or 40 products or 60 products. So that was another unique thing, is seeing companies kind of break out into their individual things, whether it was lumber or caulking technology. Again, it's just wild to see how many innovations are happening, in the built world.
Matt Knight: Yeah, and I guess to me, the thing that was jarring relative to our PropTech and ConTech conferences and even relative to CES, I would say. It's how this show is dominated by the huge companies, the Home Depots and the Lowe's and the Panasonic's and the, [00:05:00] I'm sure the big John Deere's and giant companies that are the OEMs that have billions of dollars in revenue.
It was a lot of that. And then over in West was like a little section for startups, right? With a couple of startups sprinkled in. It's a lot of things that you and I go to are 70 percent startups and getting small booths. And this is very, very different than that. At least it was in my experience.
Chris Moreno: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely, I think what's unique about it is it all four.
Parts of the conference center and then you've got speaker sessions happening and the challenge is, is you're trying to navigate everything there are these, there's even an outside area. So I think there are five or six areas and you go, then you go to the speaking sessions and the speaking sessions are happening throughout too.
So I went to a few of the speaking sessions with people that I know in multifamily or commercial that were speaking on AI or data and in resident [00:06:00] experience. And it was cool to see these sessions because they were really, really solid. But you had to hike probably about a mile Or almost like three quarters of a mile through a ton of people to get back to something else So I you know, I think it truly if you spent all four days of the conference, you're not able to See it all and experience it all there's no way but for me, I just went for 24 hours So it was a real quick trip Really set up my my time beforehand.
But to your point like Yeah, I mean, that's why I do like some of these, you know, more specific events, whether, you know, it's like, obviously going to Blueprint or going to NMHC OPTECH, where sometimes you have an event with 200 or 400 people, 600 people, I'd almost rather do that sometimes than an event with 100, 000 people.
Because then you're just getting, you know, it's 80 percent of the people you want to talk with instead of potentially, you know, 10 percent of the people you want to talk with at a larger event. Do you have thoughts on that too? [00:07:00] Do you prefer the smaller, more intimate events rather than the larger ones?
Matt Knight: I guess I think there's a place for both, and I treat these as sort of my, these events that are the big ones are sort of my top of funnel. Just find things to get deeper into, and the smaller events, you know, Blueprint isn't small, but like, that's where I have all my meetings. I didn't schedule hardly any meetings at IBS or CES.
I was walking around and learning. I expect that as I go back year after year, that'll change. But I don't think the ethos will change where it's like I need to see everybody that's here and try and convince them to come back for PropTech only conferences. And that was, that was where I spent a lot of my time.
Chris Moreno: Yeah, I always think one of the cool things is being able to sync with people for coffee or a meal. Um, you know, sometimes they don't have a booth. Sometimes they just have a badge. I always look for those kinds of people who are innovative and, may not have the budget or may be outside the scope of the event.
So I had a few of those [00:08:00] meetings which were great. But, yeah, I'm really looking forward to, RETCON next week looking forward to, I think you're doing an event, or can you talk about your event that you're doing coming up in May?
Matt Knight: Yes, and I'm not going to RETCON because it's spring break.
So let me know how that goes and tell the guys I said hi, but I like that conference. It's, I feel like it's the only, because NMHC is not really a PropTech conference, right? That's an NMHC owners, managers conference, right? And so as far as PropTech only conferences go, it's kind of the only one in the spring.
I mean, AIM happens later in the, in the year. But that's only for marketers. That's the M in aim is marketers. So I like that RETCON has a spring PropTech event, and I expect a lot of our friends will be there, but I'm not going. What I am doing is hosting an event in May in La Jolla. That's a resurrection of something Michael Beckerman did pre COVID where it was called trailblazers.
And he basically built our version of the Davos conference or of the sun Valley conference, where it's top minds invite only. [00:09:00] No paid speaking slots, no sponsors. You're there because you deserve to be there and you're there to learn and share what, you know, and so we're resurrecting that at the nonprofit where we can get the top minds in the industry together in La Jolla in May and just see the magic that happens.
Because I already saw it happen back in 2017 and 18. So, that's coming up May 6th through the 8th. And I've got a bunch of people confirmed for that. And, uh, I've got invitations going out to some more friends coming up that I think are, are high impact. But that's the event that I'm hosting in May.
Chris Moreno: Yeah, very cool.
And as you said, a smaller, more focused, I would challenge you obviously, you know, and what they're building for OPTECH, that it is, similar to whether there's RETCON or whether there's Blueprint is, more specific to real estate and technology, obviously the. NMHC OPTECH event is more specific to, multifamily, whether it's marketing tech or hardware tech for residential.
I think to your point, though, the annual meetings and things like that are much more focused on [00:10:00] broader multifamily discussions.
Matt Knight: I'm just saying, because the annual meetings in the spring, OPTECH is in the fall. So I'm saying the spring PropTech events are pretty sparse. I don't count that annual meeting as a PropTech event.
I know a lot of the PropTech guys go, but I wouldn't call it a PropTech event. That's all I was saying.
Chris Moreno: Yeah, and I think the other one that's coming up that's always exciting is, AIM with, you know, Lefkovits coming up, and their crew. And then that's going to be, I think, in May as well next year's.
And then, Apartmentalize. Do you go to the AIM conference?
Matt Knight: Yeah, and if Steve and Dennis want my help, I'd love to help those guys up in Huntington Beach. That's a cool venue and a cool conference. But again, it's all marketing, right? That's the, the innovation and marketing is the IM.
So I don't deal with a lot of marketing tech, but there is a lot on the leasing side that I see. It's has overlap with what I do, but it's not perfect overlap. So I can leave it or just show up and try and listen, but only, if they want me to.
Chris Moreno: Yeah. And this week I'll be heading to, here in Atlanta.
See, there's a JLL [00:11:00] is hosting a PropTech event. So I'm excited to see that. Stewart Byrne will be hosting one and they'll have some technologies there for some of the developers and owners and managers. So I think they're going to, you know, potentially look at doing a series here in Atlanta of, you know, maybe eight events throughout the year with unique offerings and unique technology speakers.
So that should be fun.
Matt Knight: Well, before we do a hundred percent event podcast, anything going on the deal side or the industry's trend side worth discussing?
Chris Moreno: I think the biggest thing right now is you're seeing some people raising capital, to go in and help distress assets. So I think, whereas people were trying to make deals happen, The annual meetings and you're hearing people starting to get there, but still a little part on price.
One of the things I'm hearing that is unique and interesting is people raising funds partner with others. So not buy 100 percent of an asset, but come in and maybe buy 60 percent. Or 80 percent of an [00:12:00] asset. So that's something unique, that I've been hearing and seeing in some of my discussions. Obviously people will always come in and buy out an asset, but, I think because the numbers aren't working for some people that partnerships or bringing people in to support the property with new, financing, and getting creative on that is probably the biggest thing.
I think the other piece is. You know, obviously we were, it seems like DOGE is changing, day by day with the federal government. And I think the challenge for that is when we're building a building, we actually, I'm part of a development that's opening in L. A. in a couple months. And you think about the risks of timelines over years of planning, and that building's delayed by months, right?
Is that if we can't focus on a dependable schedule to the federal government. That is really difficult because you're already having to deal with local governments, right? Local municipalities, counties, and states. But I think [00:13:00] right now with HUD, I'm hoping and especially I think, you know, seeing some of the updates, that hoping that HUD will support developers and make, you know, whether it's creating new opportunity zones, and, So definitely looking forward to getting to, I'll be in Washington, D.
C. next month or at the end of this month, Matt, I'll be out there for Advocate. And so looking to what HUD is going to do for the industry, if anything. So, I think the other topic is, depreciation. Do you think that will make it through and get passed?
Matt Knight: I don't know. I'm not as plugged in at D.
C. What I'll tell you is. Along the lines with your comment on tariffs earlier and DOGE, I hear a lot of people grumbling Short term, but optimistic long term Like I was talking to someone about academia and how MIT got budgets cut and I was like Well, how many times has MIT gotten their budget cut in history zero?
They're like, yeah, we should probably at some point have accountability to our budget And so it's like I hear a lot of people and my wife went through this when she was at Home Depot in the last administration And we had to kind of [00:14:00] diversify our supply chain away from China there was a lot of near term grumbling, but long term, like, thank goodness we did that.
Right. And I think that's a lot of what I'm hearing, too, is like. I hope DOGE doesn't cut something I care about, but do we need to cut wasteful spending? Of course we do. I'm all for it, right? So same with tariffs. It's like, I hope tariffs don't hurt us too bad in the short run, but diversifying our supply base and making it more close shore, near shore, on shore.
It's good for us in the long run. So I don't know if you hear the same thing, but I hear a lot of like, darn it. This is going to be hard this year, but in the long run, it's probably the right thing, you know?
Chris Moreno: Yeah, I don't know. It's too early to tell. Like I mentioned earlier, I think the hardest thing is being able to plan for a business.
So especially in, you know, if you have an asset already, well, you don't want massive changes to happen. But number two, if you have a development, well, you got to plan six months, 12 months, 24 months in advance. And then the same thing I think goes for a government, right? It's not even thinking politically, but you know, governments have to plan far in advance.
You have to find the [00:15:00] experts, et cetera. Anytime you're trying to hire someone, it takes a long time. So, you know, we'll see, again, I'm optimistic about HUD, curious to see what's, going to happen with HUD and we're actually coming up, Matt, on the anniversary next week.
The five year anniversary of being with HUD, and when COVID happened when we were in Washington, D. C. So, big anniversary coming up this month and thinking through that, you know, the impact it had on our economy and obviously real estate. So,
Matt Knight: it seems that it doesn't seem that long ago, but, you know, what do I know?
All right. We're out of time. Thanks for doing this. Enjoy RETCON. We'll catch up afterwards.
Chris Moreno: Sounds good. Thank you, Matt. Have a great one.
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